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Let's Give Conservatives What They Want by Eri September 30, 2011 5:51 am

It won't be enough. by ER 2011-10-01 07:22:44
An alternate proposal by FrankC 2011-09-30 13:14:54
- That is something to look at. A problem which would have to be addressed is inequities between states. ... by Eri 2011-09-30 13:47:18
There's a switch on the back of your head by RobVG 2011-09-30 08:51:02
- I do believe I hit a nerve. by Eri 2011-09-30 12:06:47
- Don't. That just feeds it. by TB 2011-09-30 09:08:13
  - Ditto. by Eri 2011-09-30 12:07:18

The party of Elizabeth Warren has NOTHING to apologize for. On the other hand - - - by bowser September 29, 2011 6:59 pm

I hope you weren't expecting an argument about Palin and Bachmann. n/t by RobVG 2011-09-29 19:58:46
- Hope all you want. I need this one. Face it, I'm getting older, a bit demented, memory's going, ... by bowser 2011-09-29 22:21:11
  - *Smile* n/t by RobVG 2011-09-30 08:53:56

The Truth can be ugly and painful, or Why America doesn't count for much anymore. by bowser September 24, 2011 2:52 pm

Q.E.D. freedom by FrankC 2011-09-26 01:19:27
- V for Vendetta? ;) by Jody 2011-09-26 03:47:46
See my post on CE under "They're Fighting Back." I no longer think much of the human race. We deserve ... by Eri 2011-09-24 18:23:56
Ugly things happen in wartime. Torture is not the only one. Some torture to routinely intimidate and terrorize ... by ER 2011-09-24 16:54:45
- Help me understand then - what separates the good guys from the bad guys? Since the US no longer ... by bowser 2011-09-24 23:08:07
  - There is only one good, and that is survival. Everything else is two bit semantics created by people to make them ... by Lee 2011-09-26 17:00:41
  - There are no good guys or bad guys. Some guys are just better than others. Evil in America did not start ... by ER 2011-09-25 05:25:05
    - (Withdrawn) by TB 2011-09-25 09:18:42
    - Some interesting points, and they don't answer the question. If there is not "liberty and justice for all", if ... by bowser 2011-09-25 08:36:26
      - You're not the first honest man to be blindsided by the bottomless well of self-serving hypocrisy represented by the jingoists ... by ER 2011-09-25 09:24:41
        
        You're right, of course. My current attitudes mirror those of my youth, when I believed the "jingoists and chauvinists ... by bowser 2011-09-25 18:17:11
        
        VERY POWERFUL BOWZ! Wish more people could read you! The ones I chat with elsewhere would LOVE to hear your ... by Lindy 2011-09-25 19:21:08
        
        Hi again Lindy. Good that our paths crossed when they did. I have posted only rarely here in ... by bowser 2011-09-27 21:44:22
        
        Well, it appears we once again have someone here to serve as a counter to TB's right wing posts. I ... by ER 2011-09-25 20:26:22
        
        Nope. You Da Man, ER. Your endless patience and unerring logic carries the day. While I regard ... by bowser 2011-09-27 22:31:25
        
        I believe that capital punishment should be reserved solely for corporate crimes. by ER 2011-09-28 06:46:25
  - You got it. The bad guys is us. All of us. The actual period of time when ... by Eri 2011-09-24 23:54:02
- Very deep perspective as always, ER. My answer to that would be to look for alternative methods of finding info. ... by VelociraptorBlade 2011-09-24 20:16:18
  - I'm sorry, VRB. But there is no easy fix to this moral dilemma. There is no technological solution ... by ER 2011-09-25 09:45:34
    - I suppose then, that living with sin is as much a part of life as living with virtue. ... by VelociraptorBlade 2011-09-25 12:17:31
      - Well, living with sin is certainly more fun. One of the really nasty things about getting old is finally realizing just ... by ER 2011-09-25 15:48:14
        
        It does give you the opportunity of seeing the aftermath of your decisions played out decades later. I guess ... by VelociraptorBlade 2011-09-25 22:12:24
        
        The people who do the torturing always define the crimes of the tortured. And they always define them in ... by ER 2011-09-26 05:09:27
        
        Then the only cure is constant revolution. Or at least a open government (US doesn't count). by VelociraptorBlade 2011-09-26 21:52:13
  - >"Cheney and his gang were loathesome and foul creatures." Hey ER, I agree with you. Nice to see some things haven't ... by Lindy 2011-09-24 21:20:52
    - Hey there, Lindy, delighted to see you 'round the Zone. Haven't seen you since the jump to HZ-Wordpress. When longterm ... by podrock 2011-09-25 14:15:57
      - Thanks for Editor status, whatever that is. I don't want it or need it, so I can never be accused ... by Lindy 2011-09-25 15:41:27
        
        In my continually annoying scientific bent, yearning always for new experiments, I long ago decided that anytime I am in ... by podrock 2011-09-25 21:26:12
        
        Well, you know I'm in the gorge and there's plenty of neat places to sit out and watch the time ... by Lindy 2011-09-26 17:46:48
        
        Is this a different house than the one you had before (the one you showed pictures of out the windows)? ... by TB 2011-09-25 17:48:02
        
        Just logging back in, this place looks unfamiliar already to me, now that I can edit posts. I like SIMPLE. ... by Lindy 2011-09-25 18:01:48
        
        You've probably done a smart thing moving out there. You want to do what you can to make it ... by TB 2011-09-25 18:34:02
        
        Hey Tom, yes... getting self sufficient is one of my goals....having a garden, being closer to local tailgate markets and ... by Lindy 2011-09-25 19:14:45
        
        Is your propane piped in or do you have a tank? Do you have some idea how much power ... by TB 2011-09-25 19:19:48
        
        I have a propane tank and hopefully enough to get me through the winter. The fireplace is vented, but I'm ... by Lindy 2011-09-25 20:02:22
        
        You can get propane powered backup generators that will automatically switch over when power goes out. Don't know how ... by TB 2011-09-25 20:14:57
        
        We have a propane-powered Honda 11,000 watt generator at the farm which kicks in when the water turbine can't keep ... by bowser 2011-09-28 07:56:13
    - Hi there. Nice to read you. Did you know there was a dance named after you? Arf by bowser 2011-09-25 08:38:10
      - Yeah, of course...before me tho. I see there a few new posters, and a few of the old ones are ... by Lindy 2011-09-25 11:01:43
        
        Ummmm..... ... by VelociraptorBlade 2011-09-25 12:13:15
        
        I though VCB was was your shortform abbreviation. Don't tell me there's a VCB here as well? by Lindy 2011-09-25 15:42:46
        
        Actually, we use VRB for Velociraptorblade. He is a very welcome newby, just off to his Frosh year at ... by Eri 2011-09-25 16:49:10
        
        The OLD MSNBC Space Science board had a poster there by the same name....Velociraptorblade. I thought this might be ... by Lindy 2011-09-25 18:05:31
        
        VRB would have been maybe 4 or 5 years old so I doubt it. He's precocious but not THAT ... by Eri 2011-09-26 10:05:20
        
        I'll have to read his posts....odd he would pick the same name. The original was WAAY in the loop.... by Lindy 2011-09-26 17:50:47
        
        Wait.... He had the exact same tag as me!? This is something I've gotta see. The odds have ... by VelociraptorBlade 2011-09-26 21:53:49
        
        I'm sure Robert has DamnTikiWiki archived but to my knowledge, we don't have access to it. Lindy, if you click on ... by Eri 2011-09-27 11:58:37
        
        Quick question: Does anyone remember what URL the MSNBC Space Science board was? by VelociraptorBlade 2011-09-30 18:58:04
        
        Clicking a name takes you to what is basically that user's blog page, with all the posts they have made ... by podrock 2011-09-27 13:44:05
        
        Clicking on the user name on the main page creates what is actually a pretty cool layout - kind of ... by TB 2011-09-27 14:01:14
        
        I'd like to see that page individualized, with your own blogroll, title graphic, etc. by podrock 2011-09-27 14:51:34
        
        Nothing loopy about VRB. ;) He's got a good head on his shoulders. by Eri 2011-09-26 21:52:19
      - You remember Lindy. She was always one of your biggest fans! by TB 2011-09-25 09:11:50
        
        Yeah, glad to see the old dog is back! LOL Biting at your heels..... by Lindy 2011-09-25 11:02:27
    - Welcome back. You have indeed been missed. I realize I had my own share of good natured fun ... by ER 2011-09-25 05:30:31
      - Wow, ER....what a statement coming from you! I know most of your taunts were good natured. You're highly intelligent, but ... by Lindy 2011-09-25 11:08:42
        
        No tan calvo que se le vean los sesos. I'm afraid you're still a ways ahead of this crowd. You ... by ER 2011-09-25 12:13:50
        
        >"You know us We already have all the answers.." Funny! Thanks. by Lindy 2011-09-25 15:44:53
    - Hi Lindy. Nice to see you. by Eri 2011-09-24 23:50:48
      - DITTO!!! Of course I see you all the time...;) by Jody 2011-09-25 14:54:47
      - Hi Eri, haven't even had ONE martini since we last spoke, but I still watch Max Keiser and think he's ... by Lindy 2011-09-25 11:15:04
        
        Well, pull up an olive and have one with me! I don't drink very often any more but I'll ... by Eri 2011-09-26 15:23:44
        
        I'll let you know when I decide to have one, usually saved for special occasions or trying days...maybe have two ... by Lindy 2011-09-26 17:54:17
        
        Oh, and, Lindy, how's your kitty? You had lost a couple last time we had e-mailed but then you ... by Eri 2011-09-26 15:26:00
      - Ditto! Sit down and raise a few. by TB 2011-09-25 08:54:59
        
        Hi TB, hope you and yours are doing well; yes I may drop in again... by Lindy 2011-09-25 11:13:17
        
        I might add that I may ONLY on post on Flame, because I don't like being censored or having to ... by Lindy 2011-09-25 15:51:17
        
        Hi, missed you and I have thought of you from time to time, usually when some idiotic story came up. ... by FrankC 2011-09-26 00:58:43
        
        1984 redux? by Eri 2011-09-26 21:57:10
        
        Heh....well, at least I'm not boring. Oh, and all those people heading for Washington after they finish off Wall Street? ... by Lindy 2011-09-26 17:42:44
        
        Note that there is a "Mysteries of the Multiverse" board that was specifically designed for "off the beaten path" speculative ... by TB 2011-09-25 17:05:14
        
        Where is it? by Lindy 2011-09-25 18:02:56
        
        Found it, I'm just running around inside here, clicking on buttons and finding out where they take me. Can you ... by Lindy 2011-09-25 20:03:53
        
        We've all gotten used to the new interface, but for the first few weeks onboard we were still knocking our ... by podrock 2011-09-25 20:36:38
        
        To be a bit more specific, he means the software update link at the top that says "Wordpress 3.2.1 is ... by TB 2011-09-25 20:46:54
        
        Thanks, TB, I could have been more clear about that! by podrock 2011-09-25 20:54:39
        
        The posting function allows you to link to online pictures as usual. The comment function on the main page ... by TB 2011-09-25 20:10:28
        
        I'm assuming Podrock will snap you into editor mode if he hasn't already. If you go to "habitablezone.com" you ... by TB 2011-09-25 18:40:55

The triumph of individualism? by TB September 21, 2011 12:34 pm

If the Fundowacko Bible-Bangers were on the Left, the Right would be doing everything they could to exterminate them. But ... by ER 2011-09-21 15:30:46
- What does "individualism" mean? "Hooray for me and the hell with you", in brief. In practice it means ... by bowser 2011-09-22 18:47:03
  - If you can convince everyone they're rugged individualists, they won't organize against you. -Lawrence J Peter by ER 2011-09-23 19:49:07
- "My only question is, 'What Socialists?' I don’t see any organized or influential Left in this country, certainly not ... by TB 2011-09-21 15:34:05
  - Tom, you see creeping socialists everywhere, its part of your charm. I know exactly who and what I am. ... by ER 2011-09-21 16:07:00
    - No organized "Left" in this country? Good, now maybe the Left on this board will concede that the "Right" isn't ... by RobVG 2011-09-21 22:58:59
    - I see. by TB 2011-09-21 16:15:18
      - Yeah, see how arrogant and pig headed that comes across? by ER 2011-09-21 16:30:15

A prediction (of sorts) by TB September 20, 2011 9:36 am

Anything's possible, I guess. But I tentatively disagree. It's a long time before the election and anything can happen. Obama ... by ER 2011-09-20 11:24:08
- Watched Noam Chomsky the other evening. He said that the very rich vote to stay very rich, but they ... by bowser 2011-09-20 22:31:59
  - I wish I shared your optimism. The IQ over 80 plus morals cohort may be the majority, but the majority ... by ER 2011-09-21 04:38:04
    - PS. Beware of Chomsky. He's smart, but he's also crazy. He's sort of a lefty Krauthammer. by ER 2011-09-21 04:43:06
      - Huh. I don't see the meanness and hostility in Chomsky I do in Krauthammer. And you must know ... by bowser 2011-09-21 06:56:15
        
        "People can look at the same thing and see different realities." Liberals know that, but Conservatives refuse to believe it. Chomsky is ... by ER 2011-09-21 09:33:30

An "entitlement" the Republicans simply love. by bowser September 18, 2011 3:49 pm

Bowser, I'm so angry with Republicans and Tea Baggers over this crap that I'm afraid to post. My anger ... by Eri 2011-09-18 21:26:14
- Do you support repealing it? As you recall, I didn't support it in the first place. by TB 2011-09-18 21:33:25
  - Please read my above post. I cannot afford to get emotionally upset. by Eri 2011-09-19 10:34:00
    - Relax and take it easy. by TB 2011-09-19 12:46:29
      - I come play on the sites to which I belong, each one different, but each one with people with whom ... by Eri 2011-09-19 17:00:55
      - Here, have a glass of Kool-Aid. by bowser 2011-09-19 15:53:30
        
        How's Kool-Aid mixed with Gin? by Eri 2011-09-19 17:01:18
        
        Kool-Aid of the sort the TB (Tea Party Lite) is offering you. No gin, straight. Almost. Kool-Aid ... by bowser 2011-09-20 22:20:52
        
        There's nothing like having that big, fat red pitcher man bust through your wall with a bottle of gin in ... by TB 2011-09-19 17:03:34

The only reason I post this on Flame is because by Jody September 15, 2011 8:10 am

I can't remember anything on the TV show West Wing that didn't resonate with me. It also accurately portrayed ... by Eri 2011-09-15 16:27:02
- "well, that’s one helluva sentence; hope you understand it" Unfortunately, I'm sure we all understand it all too well. by ER 2011-09-15 17:22:07
  - Always remember, every poll is comprised of people who did not hang up on the pollster, saying "hey, I've got ... by TB 2011-09-15 17:34:27
    - As an aside, that reminds me that "telephone bias" used to be a problem when taking random surveys. Designers had ... by RobVG 2011-09-17 11:44:59
    - Or of people the pollster didn't terminate early. I've had them do that when they found out my views ... by Eri 2011-09-15 23:26:33
      - I don't take the time for polls that often, but when I do, I engage the polltaker. Politely, of ... by TB 2011-09-16 06:39:42
Yes. Or I think so, because I don't know what this show was about, or what they were discussing ... by ER 2011-09-15 09:04:09
- Thank you ER...I can certainly understand why you perceive Conservative Christians as hypocrites. I don't agree, but I understand, if that ... by Jody 2011-09-15 10:00:12
  - To be fair, he didn't say anything about "conservative Christians" in that post. Nor did he paint with a ... by TB 2011-09-15 10:04:17
    - I agree TB....and this is where I become frustrated with Liberals. I find it interesting that the cliche`, *standing on ... by Jody 2011-09-15 10:32:22
      - EDITED: Liberals know that Conservatives are convinced that they (Liberals) Do not love their country. Don't care about their families. Love to pay ... by ER 2011-09-15 10:55:33
        
        Just leave it be, Jody. by TB 2011-09-15 11:02:46

Democracy in remission, It's ovah, y'all by FrankC September 14, 2011 3:52 pm

It's not a surprise, and thanks for the compliment. by Robert 2011-09-14 19:19:24
- I see nothing's changed around here....;~) by Lindy 2011-09-25 15:57:52
- I know how you feel Robert. I feel the same way...but for different reasons. Encroachment. That word comes in many flavors. by Jody 2011-09-15 09:08:10
- I keep saying it and no one listens. Liberalism and conservatism are just words that mean different things to different ... by FrankC 2011-09-14 21:15:43
  - You're making the same mistake others have made. That people are doing their best to dilute or even destroy the language ... by TB 2011-09-15 08:59:32
    - Observation indicates that both parties should change their mascot to Dr.Doolittle's Pushmepullme. Someone must have noticed that well into his term, ... by FrankC 2011-09-15 11:14:28
      - The idea that there "is no difference" between political ideologies is part of the trap. by TB 2011-09-15 11:18:30
    - Analyze this. People experience things, and give them names. It doesn't work the other way round, unless you were ... by ER 2011-09-15 10:26:16
      - Took you one post to slam the control rods down. Might be a record. by TB 2011-09-15 10:38:33
        
        I believe the correct technical term is "to scram" (verb, infinitive). My BS sensors detected the imminent risk of ... by ER 2011-09-15 10:46:59
        
        ROFLMAO! "imminent risk of a severe meltdown of pompous pseudo-ideological flatulence." Now THAT is a phrase I can love. Oy vey. by Eri 2011-09-15 23:35:12
        
        You have to admit, few people can blow an impotent raspberry more eloquently. :) by TB 2011-09-16 07:00:03
        
        Tom, that was no raspberry. I was in tailgunner, not bombadier mode. by ER 2011-09-16 09:49:35
        
        I'm so glad you and I agree on most things. I'm so out of practice, you'd skewer me in ... by Eri 2011-09-16 13:24:41
        
        And the most important part, any activity has been stopped. by TB 2011-09-15 11:04:55
        
        "Liberalism and conservatism are just words that mean different things to different people." You hate it when people say things like that, ... by ER 2011-09-15 11:20:15
        
        Good God, you actually invoke Orwell and 1984 while lecturing me on the "tyranny of words" and the arbitrariness of ... by TB 2011-09-15 11:30:52
        
        Absolutely. Orwell understood that he who writes the ideological dictionaries gets to control the political language. That is what ... by ER 2011-09-15 11:53:48
        
        I remember what Newspeak was for. It was to obliterate the language that permitted people to discuss or debate ... by TB 2011-09-15 12:17:58
        
        Stop? I'm just getting started! The purpose of Newspeak was to limit the language so that only IngSoc principles could be ... by ER 2011-09-15 12:53:23
        
        I didn't put the link in for your benefit. It's a bit weird to tout Orwell as a great thinker and ... by TB 2011-09-15 13:12:53
        
        Perhaps an example might clarify my position. Conservatives, when trying to emphasize some subtle constitutional point or controversy, often ... by ER 2011-09-15 13:40:21
        
        (Edited) It is quite possible to get past terminology issues in a conversation if both sides are willing. A ... by TB 2011-09-15 13:56:06
        
        Anyway, basically I was just trying to reassure Frank that things aren't as bad as he thinks they are. by TB 2011-09-15 13:26:37
        
        He's right, Frank. by ER 2011-09-15 13:45:06
- Me? Fling poo? by Jody 2011-09-14 20:54:52
  - Heeheeheeheehee. That is one of the cutest pics I've seen. by Eri 2011-09-15 16:31:19
  - I think I'm going into sugar shock! (n/t) by Robert 2011-09-14 21:34:27
Actually, I think things may be looking up. But it's going to be a long year, and not just ... by TB 2011-09-14 15:53:39

A time to remember. by bowser September 11, 2011 11:41 pm

A response to Robert and ER. I apologize for the longer discourse on this post. The more I ... by bowser 2011-09-12 21:26:01
- I think I'm well disabused of the term "morality". by Robert 2011-09-13 14:42:28
I will resist the urge to quote "My Country Right Or Wrong" just to piss you off. You know you can ... by FrankC 2011-09-12 17:04:22
- Frank, you win. I concede. First, I'd like to commend you on your "My Country Right or Wrong" ... by bowser 2011-09-12 20:42:12
  - Just so you know, you've the same editorial powers as anyone else here, with the exception of Robert and Myself. ... by podrock 2011-09-12 21:47:44
    - Thank you. I did not know any of that. Arf by bowser 2011-09-12 22:32:38
      - You should also know that no post of yours has ever been edited by me and that has been established ... by FrankC 2011-09-12 22:53:57
        
        Thanks Frank, for agreeing with me. You do have the ability to delete, etc., my posts. At your whim. Simply because ... by bowser 2011-09-13 09:36:11
        
        To be clear about this, Bowser, you have the ability to delete, etc., Frank's posts. Or my posts, or ... by podrock 2011-09-13 19:46:42
        
        The only reason I could think of to delete a post would be if someone did something like post someone's ... by TB 2011-09-13 08:45:26
        
        The other kind of posts we will not not tolerate are posts that call for or document extreme violence. Such ... by podrock 2011-09-13 19:53:27
        
        What if we call for extreme violence on spammers? by TB 2011-09-13 20:14:29
        
        Allowed, as long as it is not documented. Surely you remember when we all got together and decided these things. ... by FrankC 2011-09-13 21:43:49
        
        I vote that we hang, draw and quarter spammers right after we pepper spray and waterboard them. But I don't want ... by Eri 2011-09-14 09:35:23
        
        You have to pepper spray them after the waterboarding, or it washes right off. I've screwed up on that ... by TB 2011-09-14 09:50:50
        
        You must have done it wrong, then. Dammit, how many times do I have to tell you that water ... by Eri 2011-09-15 16:33:28
        
        My son, in a young and stupid moment some years ago, took a healthy chomp out of one of those ... by TB 2011-09-15 16:56:37
I partially agree with you. It is painful to think of your own country as capable of terrorist acts ... by Eri 2011-09-12 15:41:59
- In every single culture throughout human history, females have been abused and mistreated by males. No, I don't think ... by ER 2011-09-12 16:56:07
  - I could envision a society in which women could win. As an SF/Fantasy writer, that is easy to do. ... by Eri 2011-09-13 18:15:01
    - Don't forget Margaret Thatcher. by TB 2011-09-13 18:38:05
      - Oh Wow! How could I ever have forgotten her. Her voice is forever burned into my brain. ... by Eri 2011-09-14 06:05:09
That's a highly politicized definition of "terror". by Robert 2011-09-12 11:12:35
I understand Bowser. Like ER...I do not *completely* agree, but that is the beauty of our country. We may and ... by Jody 2011-09-12 07:08:22
What you say is true, but like all truths, there are always qualifications, exceptions and hand-wringing uncertainty. The line ... by ER 2011-09-12 06:47:10
- Just about a perfect reply. My only possible exception is on the knight's or gentleman's code of honor. Such codes ... by FrankC 2011-09-12 17:14:31

Tea Party violence by TB September 8, 2011 5:10 pm

There's a Law and Order segment on TV right now from 2009. The Tea Party and Libertarians don't come ... by Eri 2011-09-09 14:33:38
- Um...that's fiction, you know. by TB 2011-09-09 14:52:40
  - Ripped from the headlines. by Eri 2011-09-09 23:26:55
    - There are no headlines, Eri. There's only what TV writers want to believe. by TB 2011-09-10 09:52:01
      - Of course there are headlines. I see them every day and then they show up on TV. Jeez, ... by Eri 2011-09-11 05:36:13
        
        Link to one. Actual Tea Party violence even remotely resembling the union actions. by TB 2011-09-11 08:15:15

Hey, who needs jobs? by TB September 8, 2011 11:22 am

Looks like posting this on Flame didn't have the result you intended, TB. by Robert 2011-09-09 18:34:15
- Candy striper EDIT: Perhaps some explanation would be helpful here. I wrote a long post on the version of this ... by ER 2011-09-10 09:41:47
  - Well God knows I never looked like that...;). Back to your CE post on the idea that the kind heart ... by Jody 2011-09-10 10:20:15
- Sorry to disappoint Robert but this guy has taken the blue pill. "You take the blue pill – the story ... by Jody 2011-09-10 07:57:45
  - Okay, I'll bite...who picks who gets to be unemployed? ...and who would pay for it? by Jody 2011-09-10 08:22:47
    - That's easy, Jody. The boss gets to pick who is unemployed, and he never pays, the rest of us ... by ER 2011-09-10 10:11:25
    - You noticed that too, didn't you? by TB 2011-09-10 09:53:29
EDITED: He's right, you know. There have always been less people engaged in productive activity than in pure consumption, ever since ... by ER 2011-09-08 11:59:40
- There's a story that Milton Friedman was touring a big government project somewhere in China or Asia. There were ... by TB 2011-09-08 12:17:43
  - It doesn't matter how clever our technology is, if it can only support itself by denying employment to a large ... by ER 2011-09-08 12:38:16
    - I agree with you. That article is very interesting. A whole new way of perceiving. by Eri 2011-09-08 20:43:56
      - Heh. You guys never disappoint. by TB 2011-09-09 08:02:24
        
        And you, my friend, never surprise. by ER 2011-09-10 07:09:05

Rising: Rebuilding Ground Zero by FrankC September 4, 2011 8:09 pm

The time between groundbreaking and the ribbon cutting for the original WTC was 6 years and 8 months. 6 ... by TB 2011-09-05 09:21:10
- I understand where you are coming from Tom. I prefer to put fiscal concerns aside in this instance. The towers weren't ... by FrankC 2011-09-05 12:38:08

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