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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Searching for the Historical Jesus&#8221;</title>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://www.habitablezone.com/2023/11/11/searching-for-the-historical-jesus/#comment-52593</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Nov 2023 20:05:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>We have to remember not much written material survives from antiquity, and much of what does comes from Arab or Irish copies of earlier documents that date back to medieval times.  Almost everything we know from those days is 2nd or 3rd hand knowledge, much of it written by people who may have had their own political or religious axe to grind.

This is why independent manuscripts and archaeological evidence is needed just to try and fill the gaps.  Imagine a future historian trying to write a history of the post-Civil War American Frontier if all he had available was a few TV horse operas and Hollywood westerns.

&lt;img src=&quot;https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/dd/Haveguncard.png&quot; alt=&quot;&quot; /&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We have to remember not much written material survives from antiquity, and much of what does comes from Arab or Irish copies of earlier documents that date back to medieval times.  Almost everything we know from those days is 2nd or 3rd hand knowledge, much of it written by people who may have had their own political or religious axe to grind.</p>
<p>This is why independent manuscripts and archaeological evidence is needed just to try and fill the gaps.  Imagine a future historian trying to write a history of the post-Civil War American Frontier if all he had available was a few TV horse operas and Hollywood westerns.</p>
<p><img src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/dd/Haveguncard.png" alt="" /></p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://www.habitablezone.com/2023/11/11/searching-for-the-historical-jesus/#comment-52592</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Nov 2023 19:29:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://habitablezone.com/?p=101714#comment-52592</guid>
		<description>among them that he was baptized by John the Baptist, that he healed the sick, that he was executed by the Romans,  and a few other things that line up with the biblical record.  There is one other comment in his writings (I can&#039;t remember exactly what) that is suspected to have been inserted into his book by a rogue Christian scribe long after his death. Remember, Josephus wasn&#039;t born until after Jesus died, and we have no guarantees he even spoke with anyone who knew Jesus.

Jesus certainly did exist, and the major recorded details of his life are probably correct.  I doubt it would have been possible for the legend to have survived if he were a totally fictitious figure.  But as RL points out, the miracles were hogwash.

The best explanation that fills the facts is that he was a charismatic political/religious leader who had a brief but extensive ministry that left a lasting impression among a corps of loyal followers who spread his ideas across the Hellenistic world. He was executed by the Roman authorities in order to mollify Jesus&#039; own Jewish rivals.  That pretty much matches up with the Biblical account.

Here is the disputed, and possibly altered, testimony.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Testimonium Flavianum
About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he was one who performed surprising deeds and was a teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. He was the Christ. And when, upon the accusation of the principal men among us, Pilate had condemned him to a cross, those who had first come to love him did not cease. He appeared to them spending a third day restored to life, for the prophets of God had foretold these things and a thousand other marvels about him. And the tribe of the Christians, so called after him, has still to this day not disappeared.

Flavius Josephus: Antiquities of the Jews, Book 18, Chapter 3&lt;/blockquote&gt;



&quot;Jesus, why&#039;d you pick such a backward time and nation?
Israel in 4 BC had no mass communication.&quot;

--Judas&#039; song
&quot;Jesus Christ, Superstar&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>among them that he was baptized by John the Baptist, that he healed the sick, that he was executed by the Romans,  and a few other things that line up with the biblical record.  There is one other comment in his writings (I can&#8217;t remember exactly what) that is suspected to have been inserted into his book by a rogue Christian scribe long after his death. Remember, Josephus wasn&#8217;t born until after Jesus died, and we have no guarantees he even spoke with anyone who knew Jesus.</p>
<p>Jesus certainly did exist, and the major recorded details of his life are probably correct.  I doubt it would have been possible for the legend to have survived if he were a totally fictitious figure.  But as RL points out, the miracles were hogwash.</p>
<p>The best explanation that fills the facts is that he was a charismatic political/religious leader who had a brief but extensive ministry that left a lasting impression among a corps of loyal followers who spread his ideas across the Hellenistic world. He was executed by the Roman authorities in order to mollify Jesus&#8217; own Jewish rivals.  That pretty much matches up with the Biblical account.</p>
<p>Here is the disputed, and possibly altered, testimony.</p>
<blockquote><p>Testimonium Flavianum<br />
About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he was one who performed surprising deeds and was a teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. He was the Christ. And when, upon the accusation of the principal men among us, Pilate had condemned him to a cross, those who had first come to love him did not cease. He appeared to them spending a third day restored to life, for the prophets of God had foretold these things and a thousand other marvels about him. And the tribe of the Christians, so called after him, has still to this day not disappeared.</p>
<p>Flavius Josephus: Antiquities of the Jews, Book 18, Chapter 3</p></blockquote>
<p>&#8220;Jesus, why&#8217;d you pick such a backward time and nation?<br />
Israel in 4 BC had no mass communication.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8211;Judas&#8217; song<br />
&#8220;Jesus Christ, Superstar&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: BuckGalaxy</title>
		<link>https://www.habitablezone.com/2023/11/11/searching-for-the-historical-jesus/#comment-52591</link>
		<dc:creator>BuckGalaxy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Nov 2023 19:13:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://habitablezone.com/?p=101714#comment-52591</guid>
		<description>Just going off memory from my interest in this topic during my college years decades ago, I recall that Flavius Josephus, one of the great historians of that era, wrote one very small comment about Jesus. A one line comment of &quot;and then there was Jesus who was crucified in Canaan&quot; or something to that effect.  A number of modern historians suspect it was in fact inserted into his writings centuries later.  The other great historian of that era, Seneca, made no mention of Jesus at all in his extensive writings about the history of his time.   

The parallels of the Jesus story with that of Zoroastrianism and other early middle eastern religions is striking.  Zoroaster and others walked on water, fed the poor, healed the sick, rose from the dead, etc.  Early christianity can be considered the Middle East&#039;s greatest hits. It is for this reason a significant number of historians question whether Jesus ever actually exists.  

My personal belief is someone named Jesus existed and was crucified, but he was probably a madman who heard voices and his story was picked up on and embellished a couple centuries later by the writers of the New Testament.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just going off memory from my interest in this topic during my college years decades ago, I recall that Flavius Josephus, one of the great historians of that era, wrote one very small comment about Jesus. A one line comment of &#8220;and then there was Jesus who was crucified in Canaan&#8221; or something to that effect.  A number of modern historians suspect it was in fact inserted into his writings centuries later.  The other great historian of that era, Seneca, made no mention of Jesus at all in his extensive writings about the history of his time.   </p>
<p>The parallels of the Jesus story with that of Zoroastrianism and other early middle eastern religions is striking.  Zoroaster and others walked on water, fed the poor, healed the sick, rose from the dead, etc.  Early christianity can be considered the Middle East&#8217;s greatest hits. It is for this reason a significant number of historians question whether Jesus ever actually exists.  </p>
<p>My personal belief is someone named Jesus existed and was crucified, but he was probably a madman who heard voices and his story was picked up on and embellished a couple centuries later by the writers of the New Testament.</p>
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		<title>By: RL</title>
		<link>https://www.habitablezone.com/2023/11/11/searching-for-the-historical-jesus/#comment-52589</link>
		<dc:creator>RL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Nov 2023 19:02:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The miracles were hogwash, of course... 
If anyone makes the argument our nation was founded to be a christian nation point them to the Jeffersonian Bible and the Treaty of Tripoli...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The miracles were hogwash, of course&#8230;<br />
If anyone makes the argument our nation was founded to be a christian nation point them to the Jeffersonian Bible and the Treaty of Tripoli&#8230;</p>
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