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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Intelligent Design&#8221;</title>
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		<title>By: johannes</title>
		<link>https://www.habitablezone.com/2014/09/30/intelligent-design/#comment-31961</link>
		<dc:creator>johannes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2014 18:56:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I figure that whatever caused the space, mass and energy to come into existence, must be omnipotent, and space mass and energy are omniscience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I figure that whatever caused the space, mass and energy to come into existence, must be omnipotent, and space mass and energy are omniscience.</p>
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		<title>By: mcfly</title>
		<link>https://www.habitablezone.com/2014/09/30/intelligent-design/#comment-31946</link>
		<dc:creator>mcfly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2014 00:51:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>NDT&#039;s talk about how humanity is genetically about 1% different from chimps is a gem. Perhaps that 1% simply doesn&#039;t afford us the brain juice we need to understand the universe. 

And given the shape and size of the human (female) pelvis, there are practical limitations on the size of skull a baby can be born with...in other words, we&#039;re pretty much as smart as we&#039;re likely to get.

So our species sits, and will continue to sit, at the far low end of what could, generously,  be considered &quot;intelligent.&quot; We cook up an imaginary Sky King, and fancy ourselves His most precious creation, because we&#039;re terrified of facing the truth about ourselves: there&#039;s nothing of consequence that separates us from any other species on earth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NDT&#8217;s talk about how humanity is genetically about 1% different from chimps is a gem. Perhaps that 1% simply doesn&#8217;t afford us the brain juice we need to understand the universe. </p>
<p>And given the shape and size of the human (female) pelvis, there are practical limitations on the size of skull a baby can be born with&#8230;in other words, we&#8217;re pretty much as smart as we&#8217;re likely to get.</p>
<p>So our species sits, and will continue to sit, at the far low end of what could, generously,  be considered &#8220;intelligent.&#8221; We cook up an imaginary Sky King, and fancy ourselves His most precious creation, because we&#8217;re terrified of facing the truth about ourselves: there&#8217;s nothing of consequence that separates us from any other species on earth.</p>
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		<title>By: bowser</title>
		<link>https://www.habitablezone.com/2014/09/30/intelligent-design/#comment-31944</link>
		<dc:creator>bowser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2014 15:46:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Bingo!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bingo!</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://www.habitablezone.com/2014/09/30/intelligent-design/#comment-31943</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2014 12:40:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=47699#comment-31943</guid>
		<description>Human beings are in the analogous position of a small colony of cockroaches living in the pantry of one of the galleys in an aircraft carrier.  They are surrounded by this immense artifact, one that seems totally indifferent to them, even unaware of their existence, but they refuse to accept that.  They feel the need to fancy it was all created for their benefit, to serve them, they are all a part of it, somehow.  So they worship it, and fantasize about their vital role in its great purpose.

Lately, the cockroaches, in their explorations, have made it to a porthole and looked out, seeing the sea and the clouds, the sun and stars, and all the other ships and planes that are occasionally glimpsed out there.  They are also clever enough to realize that beyond the horizon there may be much, much more.  But they still are vain enough to believe they play a role in all of this, and that IT really cares about them, what they do and who they are.

We demand omnipotence in our gods because without it they wouldn&#039;t be able to do anything for us. And we demand omniscience in them because without it they wouldn&#039;t even know we were here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Human beings are in the analogous position of a small colony of cockroaches living in the pantry of one of the galleys in an aircraft carrier.  They are surrounded by this immense artifact, one that seems totally indifferent to them, even unaware of their existence, but they refuse to accept that.  They feel the need to fancy it was all created for their benefit, to serve them, they are all a part of it, somehow.  So they worship it, and fantasize about their vital role in its great purpose.</p>
<p>Lately, the cockroaches, in their explorations, have made it to a porthole and looked out, seeing the sea and the clouds, the sun and stars, and all the other ships and planes that are occasionally glimpsed out there.  They are also clever enough to realize that beyond the horizon there may be much, much more.  But they still are vain enough to believe they play a role in all of this, and that IT really cares about them, what they do and who they are.</p>
<p>We demand omnipotence in our gods because without it they wouldn&#8217;t be able to do anything for us. And we demand omniscience in them because without it they wouldn&#8217;t even know we were here.</p>
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		<title>By: DanS</title>
		<link>https://www.habitablezone.com/2014/09/30/intelligent-design/#comment-31942</link>
		<dc:creator>DanS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2014 12:16:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=47699#comment-31942</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s basic Star Trek theology.  (n/t)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s basic Star Trek theology.  (n/t)</p>
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		<title>By: bowser</title>
		<link>https://www.habitablezone.com/2014/09/30/intelligent-design/#comment-31938</link>
		<dc:creator>bowser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2014 05:30:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=47699#comment-31938</guid>
		<description>Tyson posits that if we don&#039;t understand the causation we ascribe it to &quot;god&quot;.  That &quot;god&quot; is the explanation for the gaps in our understanding.

You&#039;re careful to avoid &quot;god&quot;, while describing &quot;god&quot;.  Which is as good an explanation as anyone can come up with.  Though Tyson would say &quot;I don&#039;t know&quot; rather than &quot;god&quot;.  I think that if one believes they can detect an &quot;intellect&quot; behind the Universe, well, that traps them.  And it may well be true.  (I don&#039;t think so but I&#039;ll have to admit I have less evidence there isn&#039;t a &quot;god&quot; than there may be for it.)

And I think that in an infinite number of chances, any possibility will come true.  I don&#039;t think there is any chance, any possibility of any active intelligence operating.  There is nothing except the passive laws of physics and math.  Which may not be the same in other Universes, if any.

The Jewish faith has the concept of &quot;holy insecurity&quot;, that there are things that Man will never know.  And it&#039;s Man&#039;s duty to accept that anxiety rather than ascribe it an unknown being. 

I know the mysteries in my life have been cleared up as more information came along.  I think that extrapolates into the Universe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tyson posits that if we don&#8217;t understand the causation we ascribe it to &#8220;god&#8221;.  That &#8220;god&#8221; is the explanation for the gaps in our understanding.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re careful to avoid &#8220;god&#8221;, while describing &#8220;god&#8221;.  Which is as good an explanation as anyone can come up with.  Though Tyson would say &#8220;I don&#8217;t know&#8221; rather than &#8220;god&#8221;.  I think that if one believes they can detect an &#8220;intellect&#8221; behind the Universe, well, that traps them.  And it may well be true.  (I don&#8217;t think so but I&#8217;ll have to admit I have less evidence there isn&#8217;t a &#8220;god&#8221; than there may be for it.)</p>
<p>And I think that in an infinite number of chances, any possibility will come true.  I don&#8217;t think there is any chance, any possibility of any active intelligence operating.  There is nothing except the passive laws of physics and math.  Which may not be the same in other Universes, if any.</p>
<p>The Jewish faith has the concept of &#8220;holy insecurity&#8221;, that there are things that Man will never know.  And it&#8217;s Man&#8217;s duty to accept that anxiety rather than ascribe it an unknown being. </p>
<p>I know the mysteries in my life have been cleared up as more information came along.  I think that extrapolates into the Universe.</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://www.habitablezone.com/2014/09/30/intelligent-design/#comment-31937</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2014 04:37:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.habitablezone.com/?p=47699#comment-31937</guid>
		<description>No, I will tell you up front I don&#039;t believe the universe and everything in it was invented, and is being managed in real time, by an omnipotent intelligence. This is just superstitious nonsense.

However, the idea that somehow, in some way, intelligence and consciousness is somehow part of, and plays some role in, the cosmos cannot be totally ruled out, and there is even some circumstantial evidence to suggest there may be a connection between the two. After all, even a complete materialist must concede that the material universe has evolved conscious beings. The universe has created structures capable of contemplating itself.

First off, everything we know about physical reality, (nature) is perceived by and interpreted in, the human mind.  In fact, it makes no sense to even talk about science without considering the role of observation and data processing of some form--thought.  Quantum physics talks about the effect of an observation on what is observed,  relativity discusses how the relationship between the observed and the observer determines the nature of the observation.   But observation is a psychological phenomenon, not a physical one. 

We also know that the universe also has a non-entropic component somehow built into it, something that uses energy to create structures of great complexity; albeit by the breakdown of other complex structures. Entropy is all about information, and words like information, complexity, and observation are essentially psychological phenomena, phenomena that somehow emerge spontaneously from physical systems like biological organisms and deliberately constructed automata. There is definitely something going on that we don&#039;t understand.

Evolution involves stochastic processes operating on systems of finite complexity, the elements of chemistry, and yet we get these marvelously elaborate yet ephemeral structures (life forms)evolving through time. You can forget an occasional inefficiency, the fact that living things exist at all is a miracle. They serve no useful purpose but to perpetuate and improve themselves.

No, I can&#039;t accept the traditional idea of a god, its all just too childish; too simple to be likely, and too easy to be true. But there is something really profound about the universe that we simply do not understand, something that shouts at us every time we look at it or think about it.  Something that seems to be just beyond our grasp, yet all around us and embedded into the fabric of reality.  I can barely sense something of great beauty and truth that is all around us.  I can&#039;t prove it, I can&#039;t understand it, and it doesn&#039;t care whether I eat meat on Fridays or if I&#039;m married to the woman I&#039;m sleeping with.

But it is there.  And I have evolved to the point where I can just barely sense it.  Next to that, the Bronze Age bully taught by conventional religion is pretty pathetic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, I will tell you up front I don&#8217;t believe the universe and everything in it was invented, and is being managed in real time, by an omnipotent intelligence. This is just superstitious nonsense.</p>
<p>However, the idea that somehow, in some way, intelligence and consciousness is somehow part of, and plays some role in, the cosmos cannot be totally ruled out, and there is even some circumstantial evidence to suggest there may be a connection between the two. After all, even a complete materialist must concede that the material universe has evolved conscious beings. The universe has created structures capable of contemplating itself.</p>
<p>First off, everything we know about physical reality, (nature) is perceived by and interpreted in, the human mind.  In fact, it makes no sense to even talk about science without considering the role of observation and data processing of some form&#8211;thought.  Quantum physics talks about the effect of an observation on what is observed,  relativity discusses how the relationship between the observed and the observer determines the nature of the observation.   But observation is a psychological phenomenon, not a physical one. </p>
<p>We also know that the universe also has a non-entropic component somehow built into it, something that uses energy to create structures of great complexity; albeit by the breakdown of other complex structures. Entropy is all about information, and words like information, complexity, and observation are essentially psychological phenomena, phenomena that somehow emerge spontaneously from physical systems like biological organisms and deliberately constructed automata. There is definitely something going on that we don&#8217;t understand.</p>
<p>Evolution involves stochastic processes operating on systems of finite complexity, the elements of chemistry, and yet we get these marvelously elaborate yet ephemeral structures (life forms)evolving through time. You can forget an occasional inefficiency, the fact that living things exist at all is a miracle. They serve no useful purpose but to perpetuate and improve themselves.</p>
<p>No, I can&#8217;t accept the traditional idea of a god, its all just too childish; too simple to be likely, and too easy to be true. But there is something really profound about the universe that we simply do not understand, something that shouts at us every time we look at it or think about it.  Something that seems to be just beyond our grasp, yet all around us and embedded into the fabric of reality.  I can barely sense something of great beauty and truth that is all around us.  I can&#8217;t prove it, I can&#8217;t understand it, and it doesn&#8217;t care whether I eat meat on Fridays or if I&#8217;m married to the woman I&#8217;m sleeping with.</p>
<p>But it is there.  And I have evolved to the point where I can just barely sense it.  Next to that, the Bronze Age bully taught by conventional religion is pretty pathetic.</p>
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