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	<title>Comments on: Remember &#8220;freedom fries&#8221;?</title>
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	<link>https://www.habitablezone.com/2011/11/25/remember-freedom-fries/</link>
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		<title>By: bowser</title>
		<link>https://www.habitablezone.com/2011/11/25/remember-freedom-fries/#comment-8787</link>
		<dc:creator>bowser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Nov 2011 20:39:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=5524#comment-8787</guid>
		<description>Excellent point.  If it were anyone but GWB - - - - !</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent point.  If it were anyone but GWB &#8211; - &#8211; - !</p>
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		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://www.habitablezone.com/2011/11/25/remember-freedom-fries/#comment-8776</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Nov 2011 16:53:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=5524#comment-8776</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;If Robertson is considered a reliable source, it would be the first time around here.&lt;/p&gt;

I&#039;ll let it go.  There are whizzers like that in a lot of posts around here, and I usually just ignore them.

At least I got you to do some research!  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Robertson is considered a reliable source, it would be the first time around here.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll let it go.  There are whizzers like that in a lot of posts around here, and I usually just ignore them.</p>
<p>At least I got you to do some research!  <img src='https://www.habitablezone.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: bowser</title>
		<link>https://www.habitablezone.com/2011/11/25/remember-freedom-fries/#comment-8772</link>
		<dc:creator>bowser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Nov 2011 15:28:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=5524#comment-8772</guid>
		<description>Boy howdy!!!  I got the one wrong and the other depends upon which scoundrel you believe.

Regarding the cost of the war, a White House representative said it would cost in the neighborhood of $50 billion to $60 billion, and Bush&#039;s economic advisor was fired for saying it could cost $200 billion.  Neither of those was Bush, however.
http://articles.cnn.com/2003-01-01/politics/sproject.irq.war.cost_1_war-with-iraq-cost-cost-estimate-saddam-hussein?_s=PM:ALLPOLITICS

Regarding casualties.  

&quot;Robertson, an ardent Bush supporter, told CNN in an interview Tuesday night that he urged the president to prepare the American people for the prospect of casualties before launching the war in March 2003.

&quot;Robertson said Bush told him, &quot; &#039;Oh, no, we&#039;re not going to have any casualties.&#039; &quot;

The White House denies Bush saying that.  I have a hard time believing Bush on anything, and doubt Robertson would have made it up.

ER has it right below.  The country was led down the primrose path on that war by the Bush Administration.  Estimates of costs and times were orders of magnitude off, lie followed lie in order to generate fear, and we all know it.

And I was wrong on Bush estimating the cost.  That was a henchman.  I would say I&#039;m right on the claim of no casualties.

Arf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Boy howdy!!!  I got the one wrong and the other depends upon which scoundrel you believe.</p>
<p>Regarding the cost of the war, a White House representative said it would cost in the neighborhood of $50 billion to $60 billion, and Bush&#8217;s economic advisor was fired for saying it could cost $200 billion.  Neither of those was Bush, however.<br />
<a href="http://articles.cnn.com/2003-01-01/politics/sproject.irq.war.cost_1_war-with-iraq-cost-cost-estimate-saddam-hussein?_s=PM:ALLPOLITICS" rel="nofollow">http://articles.cnn.com/2003-01-01/politics/sproject.irq.war.cost_1_war-with-iraq-cost-cost-estimate-saddam-hussein?_s=PM:ALLPOLITICS</a></p>
<p>Regarding casualties.  </p>
<p>&#8220;Robertson, an ardent Bush supporter, told CNN in an interview Tuesday night that he urged the president to prepare the American people for the prospect of casualties before launching the war in March 2003.</p>
<p>&#8220;Robertson said Bush told him, &#8221; &#8216;Oh, no, we&#8217;re not going to have any casualties.&#8217; &#8221;</p>
<p>The White House denies Bush saying that.  I have a hard time believing Bush on anything, and doubt Robertson would have made it up.</p>
<p>ER has it right below.  The country was led down the primrose path on that war by the Bush Administration.  Estimates of costs and times were orders of magnitude off, lie followed lie in order to generate fear, and we all know it.</p>
<p>And I was wrong on Bush estimating the cost.  That was a henchman.  I would say I&#8217;m right on the claim of no casualties.</p>
<p>Arf</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://www.habitablezone.com/2011/11/25/remember-freedom-fries/#comment-8770</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Nov 2011 14:46:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=5524#comment-8770</guid>
		<description>The Cheney quote was actually from Donald Rumsfeld, and the 20G$ figure was for the projected costs of the reconstruction of Iraq, not the war itself. References to those comments are all over the net.

I recall the alleged Bush remarks to Robertson, they were also widely reported at the time, although I stopped my Google search after this hit, 

http://forums.civfanatics.com/archive/index.php/t-102890.html

But I&#039;m sure you already knew that perfectly well.  Your research skills are legendary.

You are splitting hairs here in order to cover the trail.  It is a shameless partisan propagandist&#039;s trick.  It is obvious we would never have gone to Iraq if the White House had known we would have to pay the butcher&#039;s bill in full.  The only reason to require Bowser to meticuously document these irrelevancies is to rewrite history and spin what would have been obvious to everyone at the time if it hadn&#039;t been for the WMD and Al-Quaeda connection disinformation campaign.  

We all know what really happened, and why, and how the Right has reverse-engineered the facts ever since in order to retrofit the required justifications for naked agression to their own cynical view of reality.

We invaded Iraq for economic and geopolitical/strategic reasons, I have posted on this at length and in great detail in the past and you have never been able to counter my arguments. The second (not the first) Iraq war an act of naked aggression, period. This conflict was about oil, and establishing a puppet state in the heart of the Arab World.  Any raghead who could read a map could see that. It&#039;s the sort of thing we used to rightly denounce the Reds for during the Cold War.

I, along with many liberals, supported that war, because I actually fell for the White House&#039;s lies. I found it inconceivable an American President would allow such treachery to be carried out under his name.  I guess I underestimated the cynicism of the far Right. And nothing that has happened since has persuaded me to alter that assessment.

I have no one to blame but myself-- &quot;...fool me twice...&quot; and all that. After Watergate and Iran-contra, I should have known better. This time, the noble struggle of Freedom against godless Communism could not be used as an excuse.  There wasn&#039;t a Red anywhere in sight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Cheney quote was actually from Donald Rumsfeld, and the 20G$ figure was for the projected costs of the reconstruction of Iraq, not the war itself. References to those comments are all over the net.</p>
<p>I recall the alleged Bush remarks to Robertson, they were also widely reported at the time, although I stopped my Google search after this hit, </p>
<p><a href="http://forums.civfanatics.com/archive/index.php/t-102890.html" rel="nofollow">http://forums.civfanatics.com/archive/index.php/t-102890.html</a></p>
<p>But I&#8217;m sure you already knew that perfectly well.  Your research skills are legendary.</p>
<p>You are splitting hairs here in order to cover the trail.  It is a shameless partisan propagandist&#8217;s trick.  It is obvious we would never have gone to Iraq if the White House had known we would have to pay the butcher&#8217;s bill in full.  The only reason to require Bowser to meticuously document these irrelevancies is to rewrite history and spin what would have been obvious to everyone at the time if it hadn&#8217;t been for the WMD and Al-Quaeda connection disinformation campaign.  </p>
<p>We all know what really happened, and why, and how the Right has reverse-engineered the facts ever since in order to retrofit the required justifications for naked agression to their own cynical view of reality.</p>
<p>We invaded Iraq for economic and geopolitical/strategic reasons, I have posted on this at length and in great detail in the past and you have never been able to counter my arguments. The second (not the first) Iraq war an act of naked aggression, period. This conflict was about oil, and establishing a puppet state in the heart of the Arab World.  Any raghead who could read a map could see that. It&#8217;s the sort of thing we used to rightly denounce the Reds for during the Cold War.</p>
<p>I, along with many liberals, supported that war, because I actually fell for the White House&#8217;s lies. I found it inconceivable an American President would allow such treachery to be carried out under his name.  I guess I underestimated the cynicism of the far Right. And nothing that has happened since has persuaded me to alter that assessment.</p>
<p>I have no one to blame but myself&#8211; &#8220;&#8230;fool me twice&#8230;&#8221; and all that. After Watergate and Iran-contra, I should have known better. This time, the noble struggle of Freedom against godless Communism could not be used as an excuse.  There wasn&#8217;t a Red anywhere in sight.</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://www.habitablezone.com/2011/11/25/remember-freedom-fries/#comment-8767</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Nov 2011 13:53:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=5524#comment-8767</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;How could anyone forget &quot;freedom fries&quot;?&lt;/p&gt;

That&#039;s right up there with &quot;enhanced interrogation techniques&quot;.

You really have to hand it to those Neocons.  They sure had a way of intellectually dominating the conversation, taking command of a sitation, providing a moral and intellectual anchor. And remember the loyalty and devotion they inspired in their followers?  We&#039;ll never see the likes of that again.

They left an indelible and enduring mark on the nation.  It&#039;s how posterity will remember the beginning of the 21st century, the Third Millennium. Giants strode the earth in that golden time.

The Twilight of the Gods.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How could anyone forget &#8220;freedom fries&#8221;?</p>
<p>That&#8217;s right up there with &#8220;enhanced interrogation techniques&#8221;.</p>
<p>You really have to hand it to those Neocons.  They sure had a way of intellectually dominating the conversation, taking command of a sitation, providing a moral and intellectual anchor. And remember the loyalty and devotion they inspired in their followers?  We&#8217;ll never see the likes of that again.</p>
<p>They left an indelible and enduring mark on the nation.  It&#8217;s how posterity will remember the beginning of the 21st century, the Third Millennium. Giants strode the earth in that golden time.</p>
<p>The Twilight of the Gods.</p>
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		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://www.habitablezone.com/2011/11/25/remember-freedom-fries/#comment-8761</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Nov 2011 05:48:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=5524#comment-8761</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Speaking of lies...&lt;/p&gt;


Bet you can&#039;t source the Cheney and Bush quotes in your first paragraph.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of lies&#8230;</p>
<p>Bet you can&#8217;t source the Cheney and Bush quotes in your first paragraph.</p>
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		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://www.habitablezone.com/2011/11/25/remember-freedom-fries/#comment-8760</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Nov 2011 05:35:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=5524#comment-8760</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The home page for that report is &lt;a href=&quot;http://costsofwar.org/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here.&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

Interesting that the news articles are dated at the end of June, and this is the first I&#039;ve heard of this report.  I did see a similar one a few years ago, from a different source.

Bet it would have made more headlines under a Republican president.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The home page for that report is <a href="http://costsofwar.org/" rel="nofollow">here.</a></p>
<p>Interesting that the news articles are dated at the end of June, and this is the first I&#8217;ve heard of this report.  I did see a similar one a few years ago, from a different source.</p>
<p>Bet it would have made more headlines under a Republican president.</p>
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