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	<title>Comments on: New liberal model for our society?</title>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://www.habitablezone.com/2011/06/16/new-liberal-model-for-our-society/#comment-2353</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jun 2011 23:29:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=1787#comment-2353</guid>
		<description>I never meant to imply Cubans were free of racism.  Slavery wasn&#039;t even outlawed in Cuba until the 1890s.  And my family would have been appalled if I had brought home a black girl for dinner, even more so if I had a sister who brought home a black boyfriend. Of course, they weren&#039;t too happy when I brought a white girl home for dinner, either. 

But Cuban racism was social, cultural, even class related,  the two races did not mix, at least not officially, there was plenty of interracial sexual hypocrisy in the old country. Every well-to do gentleman had his negrita on the side.

But legalized segregation and Jim Crow was something else.  Nothing like the Klan existed in Cuba.  Lynching was an outrage. They simply could not understand how something like this could be allowed to happen in the most advanced democracy in the world.  It was like the death camps in Germany, but no one even bothered to try and cover it up.  

Granted, the whole country wasn&#039;t like that, and even in the South, the Klan was considered somewhat disreputable and extreme even by most whites. But the hatred and the viciousness of southern racism was simply inconceivable to us. 

It made a deep impression on me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I never meant to imply Cubans were free of racism.  Slavery wasn&#8217;t even outlawed in Cuba until the 1890s.  And my family would have been appalled if I had brought home a black girl for dinner, even more so if I had a sister who brought home a black boyfriend. Of course, they weren&#8217;t too happy when I brought a white girl home for dinner, either. </p>
<p>But Cuban racism was social, cultural, even class related,  the two races did not mix, at least not officially, there was plenty of interracial sexual hypocrisy in the old country. Every well-to do gentleman had his negrita on the side.</p>
<p>But legalized segregation and Jim Crow was something else.  Nothing like the Klan existed in Cuba.  Lynching was an outrage. They simply could not understand how something like this could be allowed to happen in the most advanced democracy in the world.  It was like the death camps in Germany, but no one even bothered to try and cover it up.  </p>
<p>Granted, the whole country wasn&#8217;t like that, and even in the South, the Klan was considered somewhat disreputable and extreme even by most whites. But the hatred and the viciousness of southern racism was simply inconceivable to us. </p>
<p>It made a deep impression on me.</p>
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		<title>By: FrankC</title>
		<link>https://www.habitablezone.com/2011/06/16/new-liberal-model-for-our-society/#comment-2344</link>
		<dc:creator>FrankC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jun 2011 20:16:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=1787#comment-2344</guid>
		<description>Contempt for Southern racism: 

Compared to most mid-century Southerners, my family was quite liberal and I was personally a bit more liberal than they were.

I have lived all over the USA and I have worked and socialized with people of many races. I have found attitudes toward race among various races and cultures can not be taken for granted.

When I lived in New Orleans, my best friend was a Panamanian from an olive skinned upper class family. To put it mildly he did not care for blacks. A close female business associate was a very dark Indian from a Sikh family in the diplomatic service of India. She hated blacks, I always figured it was because she was often mistaken for a black (AA) person.

You would never have been subject to racial prejudice in my part of the South so I assume that your and your family&#039;s moderate views were based on the same moral compass that guided me and my family. 

I have worked with Cubans from the Miami area and I found their racial attitude to be indistinguishable from your run of the mill Caucasian. Some liberal, some not, but certainly not necessarily simpatico with blacks. 

In any case, I have found that racial prejudice is everywhere and sometimes where you would least expect to find it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Contempt for Southern racism: </p>
<p>Compared to most mid-century Southerners, my family was quite liberal and I was personally a bit more liberal than they were.</p>
<p>I have lived all over the USA and I have worked and socialized with people of many races. I have found attitudes toward race among various races and cultures can not be taken for granted.</p>
<p>When I lived in New Orleans, my best friend was a Panamanian from an olive skinned upper class family. To put it mildly he did not care for blacks. A close female business associate was a very dark Indian from a Sikh family in the diplomatic service of India. She hated blacks, I always figured it was because she was often mistaken for a black (AA) person.</p>
<p>You would never have been subject to racial prejudice in my part of the South so I assume that your and your family&#8217;s moderate views were based on the same moral compass that guided me and my family. </p>
<p>I have worked with Cubans from the Miami area and I found their racial attitude to be indistinguishable from your run of the mill Caucasian. Some liberal, some not, but certainly not necessarily simpatico with blacks. </p>
<p>In any case, I have found that racial prejudice is everywhere and sometimes where you would least expect to find it.</p>
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		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://www.habitablezone.com/2011/06/16/new-liberal-model-for-our-society/#comment-2335</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jun 2011 17:08:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=1787#comment-2335</guid>
		<description>The American military can be justifiably proud of its history in race relations.  It was one of the earliest and largest institutions to practice real integration and mean it.

I have no idea where that columnist is coming from.  A lot of liberal pundit thinking has drifted off to the point where I can&#039;t even pull it up on my radar any more.

I don&#039;t know what America spends on its individual troops (salaries, care, medical, benefits, retirement, etc.).  It&#039;s a lot harder than simply dividing out the budget numbers, and even medical care numbers can&#039;t be directly compared (obviously military and civilian medical costs are apples and oranges).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The American military can be justifiably proud of its history in race relations.  It was one of the earliest and largest institutions to practice real integration and mean it.</p>
<p>I have no idea where that columnist is coming from.  A lot of liberal pundit thinking has drifted off to the point where I can&#8217;t even pull it up on my radar any more.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know what America spends on its individual troops (salaries, care, medical, benefits, retirement, etc.).  It&#8217;s a lot harder than simply dividing out the budget numbers, and even medical care numbers can&#8217;t be directly compared (obviously military and civilian medical costs are apples and oranges).</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://www.habitablezone.com/2011/06/16/new-liberal-model-for-our-society/#comment-2334</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jun 2011 16:57:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=1787#comment-2334</guid>
		<description>The military&#039;s job is killing people and destroying property on a mass scale, and when it isn&#039;t actually doing that, or training you for it, it&#039;s not a bad place to be. They do take good care of their own.

I went aboard my ship in late 1967, and at a time when there were still cross-burnings and segregated drinking fountains in my state, I found I was soon under the direct command of Master Chief Douglas, the biggest, ugliest and meanest black man I had ever seen. He owed a lot more to Idi Amin than to Denzel Washington. 

But not only was he a supernaturally competent seaman, but a gifted leader; he was incredibly fair with all his subordinates, black or white. The ship&#039;s crew reflected societal demographics at the time, about 80-20. The all-white officers had a deep respect for this man who could make them look good. 

Douglas whipped up a batch of scurvy reservist boots into shape and began conducting all-hands evolutions like  refueling at sea in a full gale with only two weeks of training and drills to get us ready. Try to imagine putting up circus tent, then taking it down, in a thunderstorm. 

Although I had been brought up at home with a thorough contempt for Southern racism, I had never actually experienced living and working with blacks before. It was an eye opener.  And I knew it was going to work back home too, no matter what they said. And &quot;they&quot; kept on telling us it wasn&#039;t. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The military&#8217;s job is killing people and destroying property on a mass scale, and when it isn&#8217;t actually doing that, or training you for it, it&#8217;s not a bad place to be. They do take good care of their own.</p>
<p>I went aboard my ship in late 1967, and at a time when there were still cross-burnings and segregated drinking fountains in my state, I found I was soon under the direct command of Master Chief Douglas, the biggest, ugliest and meanest black man I had ever seen. He owed a lot more to Idi Amin than to Denzel Washington. </p>
<p>But not only was he a supernaturally competent seaman, but a gifted leader; he was incredibly fair with all his subordinates, black or white. The ship&#8217;s crew reflected societal demographics at the time, about 80-20. The all-white officers had a deep respect for this man who could make them look good. </p>
<p>Douglas whipped up a batch of scurvy reservist boots into shape and began conducting all-hands evolutions like  refueling at sea in a full gale with only two weeks of training and drills to get us ready. Try to imagine putting up circus tent, then taking it down, in a thunderstorm. </p>
<p>Although I had been brought up at home with a thorough contempt for Southern racism, I had never actually experienced living and working with blacks before. It was an eye opener.  And I knew it was going to work back home too, no matter what they said. And &#8220;they&#8221; kept on telling us it wasn&#8217;t.</p>
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