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	<title>Comments on: China offers a billion customers, but are they worth the cost of getting to them?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.habitablezone.com/2011/06/16/china-offers-a-billion-customers-but-are-they-worth-the-cost-of-getting-to-them/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://www.habitablezone.com/2011/06/16/china-offers-a-billion-customers-but-are-they-worth-the-cost-of-getting-to-them/</link>
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		<title>By: mcfly</title>
		<link>https://www.habitablezone.com/2011/06/16/china-offers-a-billion-customers-but-are-they-worth-the-cost-of-getting-to-them/#comment-2445</link>
		<dc:creator>mcfly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jun 2011 23:31:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=1792#comment-2445</guid>
		<description>The main reason for my original post was because China&#039;s demanding that US companies hand over their technology to the Chinese, free and clear, thus creating their (the US companies) own competitors. Seems like blackmail to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The main reason for my original post was because China&#8217;s demanding that US companies hand over their technology to the Chinese, free and clear, thus creating their (the US companies) own competitors. Seems like blackmail to me.</p>
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		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://www.habitablezone.com/2011/06/16/china-offers-a-billion-customers-but-are-they-worth-the-cost-of-getting-to-them/#comment-2421</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jun 2011 18:29:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=1792#comment-2421</guid>
		<description>Go read my response to McFly.  The one that starts &quot;think hard.&quot;

Then you can tell me what will happen to a company that decides &quot;short term profits&quot; can be dispensed with.  That decided it&#039;s not going to go overseas when five of its competitors are.  There are probably a lot of companies that said &quot;thanks, but no thanks.&quot;  Their windows are boarded up, and their employees are in no better shape than any of the others.

One of the most pervasive delusions of the Left is that people who run businesses are just plain bastards, and they could all make hundred-mile-per-gallon cars and pay someone thirty dollars an hour to paint McDonald&#039;s toys or screw a circuit board in if they really &lt;em&gt;wanted&lt;/em&gt; to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Go read my response to McFly.  The one that starts &#8220;think hard.&#8221;</p>
<p>Then you can tell me what will happen to a company that decides &#8220;short term profits&#8221; can be dispensed with.  That decided it&#8217;s not going to go overseas when five of its competitors are.  There are probably a lot of companies that said &#8220;thanks, but no thanks.&#8221;  Their windows are boarded up, and their employees are in no better shape than any of the others.</p>
<p>One of the most pervasive delusions of the Left is that people who run businesses are just plain bastards, and they could all make hundred-mile-per-gallon cars and pay someone thirty dollars an hour to paint McDonald&#8217;s toys or screw a circuit board in if they really <em>wanted</em> to.</p>
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		<title>By: mcfly</title>
		<link>https://www.habitablezone.com/2011/06/16/china-offers-a-billion-customers-but-are-they-worth-the-cost-of-getting-to-them/#comment-2409</link>
		<dc:creator>mcfly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jun 2011 17:46:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=1792#comment-2409</guid>
		<description>Thanks. I&#039;ll follow your links.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks. I&#8217;ll follow your links.</p>
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		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://www.habitablezone.com/2011/06/16/china-offers-a-billion-customers-but-are-they-worth-the-cost-of-getting-to-them/#comment-2406</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jun 2011 17:36:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=1792#comment-2406</guid>
		<description>Think hard.  Where are you hearing all this?

Who uses the catch phrase &quot;shipping our jobs overseas?&quot;  And why? What are their solutions?

Has anyone thought through the process of manufacturing cheap consumer items here?  How it would be set up?  How it would work?  I have.  Years ago.  So have many others.  Try it.  Go through the concept and basic numbers of opening a factory in Nebraska that makes an electric fan you can buy for fifteen dollars.

America&#039;s Golden Age of Labor was back when the Third World was slogging behind cows for a living, and the rest of the First World had been blasted to shit by a world war.  How long did we think we could pay a man huge wages and endless benefits for turning a bolt on an assembly line when there were billions of people out there who could do the same job for much less?

Think about your hypothetical fan factory.  Try the tariff trick, and watch what happens to the trade balance when Europe decides to buy Chinese fans instead.  Try &lt;i&gt;all&lt;/i&gt; the tricks.

Businesses didn&#039;t &quot;happily&quot; ship jobs overseas.  The ones that refused to do so simply folded up while other businesses did it and survived, or often, businesses that were actually founded overseas started building the products instead.

Go to the BLS site &lt;a href=&quot;http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/surveymost?ce&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here.&lt;/a&gt;  Click on the boxes about manufacturing employment (some go all the way back to 1939, others only back to 2006 for some reason.)  What do you see?  Check the graph option.  How does the manufacturing graph compare to overall non-farm employment since 1940?

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.hks.harvard.edu/fs/rlawrence/BPEA%20Baily-Lawr%20Oct%208%20clean.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Here&#039;s a paper&lt;/a&gt; I found a while back on the subject which also has a lot of the employment graphs and numbers at the end.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Think hard.  Where are you hearing all this?</p>
<p>Who uses the catch phrase &#8220;shipping our jobs overseas?&#8221;  And why? What are their solutions?</p>
<p>Has anyone thought through the process of manufacturing cheap consumer items here?  How it would be set up?  How it would work?  I have.  Years ago.  So have many others.  Try it.  Go through the concept and basic numbers of opening a factory in Nebraska that makes an electric fan you can buy for fifteen dollars.</p>
<p>America&#8217;s Golden Age of Labor was back when the Third World was slogging behind cows for a living, and the rest of the First World had been blasted to shit by a world war.  How long did we think we could pay a man huge wages and endless benefits for turning a bolt on an assembly line when there were billions of people out there who could do the same job for much less?</p>
<p>Think about your hypothetical fan factory.  Try the tariff trick, and watch what happens to the trade balance when Europe decides to buy Chinese fans instead.  Try <i>all</i> the tricks.</p>
<p>Businesses didn&#8217;t &#8220;happily&#8221; ship jobs overseas.  The ones that refused to do so simply folded up while other businesses did it and survived, or often, businesses that were actually founded overseas started building the products instead.</p>
<p>Go to the BLS site <a href="http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/surveymost?ce" rel="nofollow">here.</a>  Click on the boxes about manufacturing employment (some go all the way back to 1939, others only back to 2006 for some reason.)  What do you see?  Check the graph option.  How does the manufacturing graph compare to overall non-farm employment since 1940?</p>
<p><a href="http://www.hks.harvard.edu/fs/rlawrence/BPEA%20Baily-Lawr%20Oct%208%20clean.pdf" rel="nofollow">Here&#8217;s a paper</a> I found a while back on the subject which also has a lot of the employment graphs and numbers at the end.</p>
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		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>https://www.habitablezone.com/2011/06/16/china-offers-a-billion-customers-but-are-they-worth-the-cost-of-getting-to-them/#comment-2401</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jun 2011 17:07:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=1792#comment-2401</guid>
		<description>No, ER&#039;s post I was replying to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, ER&#8217;s post I was replying to.</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>https://www.habitablezone.com/2011/06/16/china-offers-a-billion-customers-but-are-they-worth-the-cost-of-getting-to-them/#comment-2387</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jun 2011 13:22:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=1792#comment-2387</guid>
		<description>You know that&#039;s not going to happen. The companies will go where the short term profit is. They will do it every single time, you can count on it. They don&#039;t know how to say no, they are whores, its in their jeans and they can&#039;t wait to give it away.

The Chinese know this, they have all that kung fu Art of War stuff--divide and conquer and all that, to rely on. And once they got over all that Chairman Mao nonsense, they have 5000 years of strategic thought and commercial savvy to draw on.  

The key to understanding this suicidal national behavior on our part is that even though our trade relationships with China have been disastrous for the country as a whole, some Americans have gotten very rich by dealing with them.

Those Americans are not likely to favor any fundamental change in relations between the two countries, in fact, they will use every bit of political influence they can buy to make sure things stay the same.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know that&#8217;s not going to happen. The companies will go where the short term profit is. They will do it every single time, you can count on it. They don&#8217;t know how to say no, they are whores, its in their jeans and they can&#8217;t wait to give it away.</p>
<p>The Chinese know this, they have all that kung fu Art of War stuff&#8211;divide and conquer and all that, to rely on. And once they got over all that Chairman Mao nonsense, they have 5000 years of strategic thought and commercial savvy to draw on.  </p>
<p>The key to understanding this suicidal national behavior on our part is that even though our trade relationships with China have been disastrous for the country as a whole, some Americans have gotten very rich by dealing with them.</p>
<p>Those Americans are not likely to favor any fundamental change in relations between the two countries, in fact, they will use every bit of political influence they can buy to make sure things stay the same.</p>
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		<title>By: mcfly</title>
		<link>https://www.habitablezone.com/2011/06/16/china-offers-a-billion-customers-but-are-they-worth-the-cost-of-getting-to-them/#comment-2385</link>
		<dc:creator>mcfly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jun 2011 10:51:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=1792#comment-2385</guid>
		<description>And no, not everything is Japanese...everything is Chinese. 

And as for people making money, I&#039;m all for it. I&#039;d love to BE one of those people. What I resent are those who&#039;ve sold out their own country to make a buck.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And no, not everything is Japanese&#8230;everything is Chinese. </p>
<p>And as for people making money, I&#8217;m all for it. I&#8217;d love to BE one of those people. What I resent are those who&#8217;ve sold out their own country to make a buck.</p>
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		<title>By: mcfly</title>
		<link>https://www.habitablezone.com/2011/06/16/china-offers-a-billion-customers-but-are-they-worth-the-cost-of-getting-to-them/#comment-2384</link>
		<dc:creator>mcfly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jun 2011 10:39:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=1792#comment-2384</guid>
		<description>When you say the post is incorrect, do you mean the article I linked to in my initial post?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When you say the post is incorrect, do you mean the article I linked to in my initial post?</p>
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		<title>By: mcfly</title>
		<link>https://www.habitablezone.com/2011/06/16/china-offers-a-billion-customers-but-are-they-worth-the-cost-of-getting-to-them/#comment-2383</link>
		<dc:creator>mcfly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jun 2011 10:36:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=1792#comment-2383</guid>
		<description>This time &#039;round they want the rope for free. And this is one valuable rope!

I&#039;d sure like to see American companies say &quot;thanks but no thanks,&quot; but I don&#039;t know if that&#039;s in our genes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This time &#8217;round they want the rope for free. And this is one valuable rope!</p>
<p>I&#8217;d sure like to see American companies say &#8220;thanks but no thanks,&#8221; but I don&#8217;t know if that&#8217;s in our genes.</p>
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		<title>By: mcfly</title>
		<link>https://www.habitablezone.com/2011/06/16/china-offers-a-billion-customers-but-are-they-worth-the-cost-of-getting-to-them/#comment-2382</link>
		<dc:creator>mcfly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jun 2011 10:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://habitablezone.com/?p=1792#comment-2382</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s tough to discard notions of decline when we&#039;ve seen manufacturing flee the country and when supposedly third-world countries rise to challenge us on an increasing number of fronts. The most painful part for me is that American business has willingly and happily shipped so many jobs overseas. Opportunity and skills have gone with those jobs. How can one not harbor a sense of betrayal?

I don&#039;t WANT to believe in American decline, but evidence for such seems to mount almost daily.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s tough to discard notions of decline when we&#8217;ve seen manufacturing flee the country and when supposedly third-world countries rise to challenge us on an increasing number of fronts. The most painful part for me is that American business has willingly and happily shipped so many jobs overseas. Opportunity and skills have gone with those jobs. How can one not harbor a sense of betrayal?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t WANT to believe in American decline, but evidence for such seems to mount almost daily.</p>
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